negotiating an offer when you haven’t talked salary at all

This post was written by Alison Green and published on Ask a Manager .
A reader writes:
After four interviews and a performance assessment, the company has signaled that they plan to make me an offer next week. I’m excited! But the tricky part is that we haven’t discussed salary expectations on either side. At all. They didn’t share a range, and they haven’t asked for mine. I wish I had asked, but it never seemed like the right time.
My number for happily accepting is $130K, based on my current salary and my understanding of the job’s demands. But my research suggests this may be on the high end of what I can expect.
• If they offer $130K+: Phew. I’ll ask if they can get closer to $140K, knowing I can simply accept if they can’t do it.
• If they offer $120K: Should I still ask if they can get closer to $140K? Is that too much to be a casual request?
• If they offer less than $120K: Now I’m worried we’re too far apart to meet. Do I keep going for $140K with the aim of settling at $130K? Or if the initial offer is $110-115K, is it better to be more frank and share that my baseline for making the move is $130K? If I can get them to agree, will they expect me to massively overdeliver?
• What if they ask for my number first? That would be weird at the offer stage but it could happen, right? Should I just come out and say I’m hoping for $140K?
More broadly, do you think I’m in a better or worse position because we haven’t anchored expectations? Some say to put it off for as long as you can, but I feel a little foolish for having invested so much in this process without knowing whether my needs exceed their budget.
Yeah, four interviews and a performance assessment is a lot to invest without having talked about the salary at all. If they offer $115K and won’t budge, are you going to be pissed that you invested all that time? If so, that’s a sign to raise it earlier on next time.
As for strategy from here:
• If they offer $130K+: Yes, just say, “I’m really excited about the role! Any chance you could get closer to $140K?” knowing you’ll accept even if they can’t.
• If they offer $120K: Asking for $140K is a pretty big leap. Since you’d happily accept at $130K, I’d say this: “I’m really excited about the role. Any chance you can go up to $130K? If so, I’d love to accept.”
• If they offer less than $120K: “I’m really excited about the role. I want to be up-front that the number I’ve had in mind based on the market and the role is $130K. If you can go up to that, I’d love to accept.” As for your question about whether you’d be expected to massively overdeliver if they do it, probably not but pay attention to their cues. If they seem really hesitant, I’d be more wary (both of that and of whether your raises will be super limited afterwards).
• If they ask you for a number first, that would indeed be weird at the offer stage and probably won’t happen. But if they do, you have two choices: You can turn it back on them and ask, “What did you have budgeted for the role?” (Believe me, they have an idea.) Or, since you’re at the end of the process and you’re clear on what it would take for you to accept, you can just tell them what that number is (maybe framing it as “130s” so you’re not anchoring yourself at $130K). Normally I’d recommend the former, but in this case I don’t think the latter is a horrible move.
Read an update to this letter . 
You may also like: how to ask about salary when you're invited to interview I've been offered the job -- but they won't tell me the salary until we can meet face-to-face a real-life salary negotiation success story